Comments on: Batman http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/ Archetypes and Personal Development - the only website make sense of them both Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:33:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Administrator http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3447 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:51:27 +0000 http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3447 Yes, we're definitely in tune on this one. Great comments! Seligman's idea harks back to Plato, I suppose, who proposed in 'The Republic' that art should be used to strengthen the population's sensibilities - although in his case it looks dangerously like propaganda.... Despite this, for centuries the worth of art was upheld by sufficient people feeling it to be of enduring value, and nothing more formal was needed. Of course, this led on occasions to some very strange societies and some extremely unhappy human situations (as for example when the Church told everyone to read only the Bible, nothing else, and then wondered why they had wars on their hands...) I think it is every thinking citizen's duty to complain about third rate art, just as we should complain about adulterated foods and polluted air and contaminated water. Bad art makes us feel sick, just as rotted food will, and we can feel that in our viscera. Yes, we’re definitely in tune on this one. Great comments! Seligman’s idea harks back to Plato, I suppose, who proposed in ‘The Republic’ that art should be used to strengthen the population’s sensibilities - although in his case it looks dangerously like propaganda…. Despite this, for centuries the worth of art was upheld by sufficient people feeling it to be of enduring value, and nothing more formal was needed. Of course, this led on occasions to some very strange societies and some extremely unhappy human situations (as for example when the Church told everyone to read only the Bible, nothing else, and then wondered why they had wars on their hands…)

I think it is every thinking citizen’s duty to complain about third rate art, just as we should complain about adulterated foods and polluted air and contaminated water. Bad art makes us feel sick, just as rotted food will, and we can feel that in our viscera.

]]> by: Hopton http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3444 Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:23:37 +0000 http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3444 Thanks for the great reply. Yes, reduction is necessary to sell many products. As someone who defected into a more lucrative field for a while after college (NOT Hollywood), I agree with your "greener" pastures theory. It makes me sad, although I can see counter-examples of good storytelling that does not grovel at the feet of its audience like The Wire, independent films and independent media. There are a lot of nameless people making great art and telling important stories. For example:Ashkon (an Iranian-American hip-hop artist) - Soldier Boy (remix) http://media.libsyn.com/media/thornmorris/soldierboy.mp3 Your comment reminded me of <a href="http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/martin_seligman_on_the_state_of_psychology.html?utm_source=SubscriberMail&#38;utm_medium=email&#38;utm_campaign=This%20week%3A%20Stories%20of%20our%20shared%20humanity&#38;utm_term=&#38;utm_content=80e524c6acaf421091fe87e96237120b" rel="nofollow">a video I recently saw by the famous academic Martin Seligman...</a> In particular, in the last few minutes of the presentation (watch the whole thing, it's worth it), he talks about how technology, entertainment and design can be harnessed to increase positive emotion, flow and meaning in life. I already see this happening with technology (in small ways like blogs/podcasts) but entertainment and design have huge opportunities. I enjoyed your recent book! You should do a post on your (summer) reading... Thanks for the great reply. Yes, reduction is necessary to sell many products. As someone who defected into a more lucrative field for a while after college (NOT Hollywood), I agree with your “greener” pastures theory. It makes me sad, although I can see counter-examples of good storytelling that does not grovel at the feet of its audience like The Wire, independent films and independent media. There are a lot of nameless people making great art and telling important stories. For example:Ashkon (an Iranian-American hip-hop artist) - Soldier Boy (remix) http://media.libsyn.com/media/thornmorris/soldierboy.mp3

Your comment reminded me of a video I recently saw by the famous academic Martin Seligman…
In particular, in the last few minutes of the presentation (watch the whole thing, it’s worth it), he talks about how technology, entertainment and design can be harnessed to increase positive emotion, flow and meaning in life. I already see this happening with technology (in small ways like blogs/podcasts) but entertainment and design have huge opportunities.

I enjoyed your recent book! You should do a post on your (summer) reading…

]]> by: Administrator http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3439 Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:32:18 +0000 http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3439 Excellent points! And I can only agree that technocrats, who like to work within systems for the most part, are highly likely to be Orphans pretending that they don't know they're Orphans. The stories any culture tells itself are usually pretty good indicators of the values that a culture wishes to endorse and promote. The Batman tales aren't bad, they're just not particularly sophisticated, nor do they have real depth in my view. Life is constructed upon many bases, and three that matter to me are mystery, beauty, and passion. There are wonderful mysteries to the human heart, there are beautiful actions that exist in bleak environments, and there are passionate engagements with living that are possible for all of us - - and all of these things are about enhancing life, not reducing it to a good guys versus bad guys diagram. Could it be that the good story tellers have all defected in their formative years to Hollywood and the big bucks? Some, assuredly, become politicians, too.... Stories that are shallow or facile (to answer your question) are artifacts that tend to reduce the wonders of our world to something that could be written on a fortune cookie. To that extent they betray the real, honest, nature of existence. As ever, Allan Excellent points! And I can only agree that technocrats, who like to work within systems for the most part, are highly likely to be Orphans pretending that they don’t know they’re Orphans.

The stories any culture tells itself are usually pretty good indicators of the values that a culture wishes to endorse and promote. The Batman tales aren’t bad, they’re just not particularly sophisticated, nor do they have real depth in my view. Life is constructed upon many bases, and three that matter to me are mystery, beauty, and passion. There are wonderful mysteries to the human heart, there are beautiful actions that exist in bleak environments, and there are passionate engagements with living that are possible for all of us - - and all of these things are about enhancing life, not reducing it to a good guys versus bad guys diagram.

Could it be that the good story tellers have all defected in their formative years to Hollywood and the big bucks? Some, assuredly, become politicians, too….

Stories that are shallow or facile (to answer your question) are artifacts that tend to reduce the wonders of our world to something that could be written on a fortune cookie. To that extent they betray the real, honest, nature of existence.

As ever, Allan

]]> by: Hopton http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3438 Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:38:05 +0000 http://allanhunter.net/blog/2008/07/25/batman/#comment-3438 The cause lies much deeper than blaming the consumer/viewer. I believe the violence of the film points to the real issue--- it's entertainment as diversion. For good or bad people need/want a diversion in their lives. It's the world many people live in or choose to live in. I personally don't want to spend my life making a product that is a diversion but our society has created a powerful mechanism (parts of Hollywood) to produce these types of films to fill various voids in our lives. You touch on a really interesting point in this post... That maybe a story can guide human beings to immoral or moral actions? It seems to me that modern society has lost faith that stories convey morality. We live in a world that is a technocrats wet dream--- and I suspect that most technocrats are closest to the Orphan, although I could be wrong in specific cases. In some ways it seems that the powerful will always use stories to pursue their own interests. That is the very reason good stories are needed to counter-balance that influence. Where have the storytellers gone? I wonder this often... and whether stories are moral creatures? The cause lies much deeper than blaming the consumer/viewer. I believe the violence of the film points to the real issue— it’s entertainment as diversion. For good or bad people need/want a diversion in their lives. It’s the world many people live in or choose to live in.

I personally don’t want to spend my life making a product that is a diversion but our society has created a powerful mechanism (parts of Hollywood) to produce these types of films to fill various voids in our lives.

You touch on a really interesting point in this post… That maybe a story can guide human beings to immoral or moral actions? It seems to me that modern society has lost faith that stories convey morality. We live in a world that is a technocrats wet dream— and I suspect that most technocrats are closest to the Orphan, although I could be wrong in specific cases.

In some ways it seems that the powerful will always use stories to pursue their own interests. That is the very reason good stories are needed to counter-balance that influence.

Where have the storytellers gone?

I wonder this often… and whether stories are moral creatures?

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